Hillsong's Pastor Carl Lentz was the special guest during Oprah Winfrey's SuperSoul Sunday talk show recently, and the two discussed "the root of racism."
It was Winfrey, 62, who brought up the topic. Lentz, 31, hasn't been shy about the issue. He earlier said their church won't be using the hashtag "Black Lives Matter" because "black lives apparently are worth less on our streets," given the deaths of black men at the hands of police officers.
So when Winfrey asked Lentz what he thinks is the root of racism in America, Lentz responded: "Ignorance. And, ignorance is a lack of information, which creates insecurity; insecurity creates defensiveness, and defensiveness creates attack."
Lentz added that he gets frustrated every time "people want to act like this isn't a conversation."
"White people can be so defensive about this subject," Lentz continued. "Are you really trying to say that this isn't an issue?"
The talk show host couldn't agree more, and even shared some personal experiences she'd had with her white friends who refused to believe there is still a systematic racial issue in America.
"When I started talking to some of my white friends, and I think this is when like Trayvon Martin first was shot, everybody thought that was an anomaly, not everybody, but some of my white friends," she explained. "They were like literally saying to me: 'This doesn't go on all the time.' And, I go, 'It does.'"
Martin was a 17-year-old African-American who was fatally shot by a neighbourhood watch volunteer back in 2012. The man who shot him, George Zimmerman, claimed that he did it in self-defence. However, reports later came out that Martin was unarmed during the time of the shooting and was simply holding a pack of Skittles and an iced tea drink he'd picked up from 7-Eleven.
Lentz said white people should open their mind to the reality and consider talking about what happened. "I think, again, that word conversation, which has been one of your gifts to our country, is that you will start a conversation. At the table is where we find common ground. There is no conversations in our country," he said.
Winfrey suggested that maybe people don't like talking about racism issue because "people immediately feel that you are accusing them of being a racist."
"Correct. Yes," Lentz replied. "We have to be able to talk about this. I have to be able to communicate how I feel without you attacking me."
